Turkey Vulture (Immature)

That's fine. I've taken an interest in turkey vultures over the last few years as they have changed their migration habits and started overwintering. The locals birders, of course, have been reporting sightings. 4 years ago they were away from my area for only a few weeks, and now there seems to be a resident colony all winter long. Thus I was keen to see blacks when I went to Costa Rica, but only saw them at a distance, where I noted flight differences. Then the next year in Belize and Guatamala, I got quite a bit of time to see them up close too and needed (for myself - we had birding guides) to find kind ID points and quickly. I'm convinced as I said before

He and I have already talked about it and have agreed to disagree. I still stick to what I say and he sticks to what he says, and that's okay.

Liam is Project Noah's Bird nerd. I bow to his decision... kind of like Bayucca with butterflies

These are Black Vultures, or at least photos 2-4 are. Turkey Vultures of any age lack the baggy skin on the face.

Fair enough, as I'm not seeing what you are, and you're not seeing what I am. Without having him in front of us it's moot

"Their wing is clearly lighter all the way to the body and not just halfway down the wing." The wing is very clearly half white and half black, and very clearly goes all the way to the body. In the 3rd photo you can see it's molting tail feathers, it is just going through changes right now. I'm sorry you think the head shape and bill thickness doesn't match, but this is a turkey vulture. I don't know else to say to convince you, so I'm just going to stop.

http://www.pbase.com/rcm1840/image/71102...

Several things make me stick to an ID of Black: The half heart shape of the head in #2 The slimmer, gull like beak in #4 and chunkier head. The wings & tail are short in comparison to the body in the same pic.

TV's Juv does have a blackish head with white-grey down, but rarely do we see a juvenile that hasn't started turning red(they breed behind my house and in 20 years I've seen one juv with black on it's head, and what is mor striking is the white - looks white washed). Their wing is clearly lighter all the way to the body and not just halfway down the wing. Their flight feathers have more differential between fingers.

Sorry, sticking to black on this one, unless there are better photos!

If you read previous comments Karen, you will see that immature turkey vultures have black heads. The tips on the bird in photo 2 are silver, as are the rest of the underwing. It is the same bird in photo 2 as in photo 3, you can tell by the fact that nothing in the photo changes. Definitely not a "lighting/exposure" issue, these are turkey vultures.

Black vulture: white wing tips(instead of silvery underwings) photo2, black head with crescent effect where head meets feathers on the back of head(gives head a shorter profile), photo2. TV has red head and skin meet feathers horizontally at shoulders. I think the silvery appearance of the underwing is a lighting/exposure issue. Also the "loose" feathers at the wing tip look different. We only have TV's where I live, but we saw blacks in Belize and Guatamala.

The underwing pattern. Black vultures only have white tips, where as turkey vultures have equal white and black long ways down the wing, as you can see in photos 3 and 4

So Ashley how is it a Turkey v a black?

A black vulture would only have white underneath on the tips of the wings. As you can see in the third photo, this is not the case. Immature turkey vultures have black heads, doesn't make them a black vulture though.