Black Swallowtail

I want to thank you Adarsha B S, gatorfellows, theham, Diane Platco Brooks and Bayucca for this great investigative work on the ID of this butterfly, I really appreciated it. I don't know anything about butterflies except that they are so many and beautiful. About which one is the correct ID suggestion It is a difficult choice as gatorfellows said "it has the same problem of "not quite right'.

Hola Luis! This is quite a rare situation: Lot of people involved, a lot of comments and a patt concerning the ID. Please, take a little time to check the different links and make a decision. Please, check also your posting on FB, there are also some helpful comments as I can remember. I hope you take the right decision ;-)...
Thanks!

Thanks bayucca for you suggestion. I searched butterflies of america to try to find a better match. The asterius, has the same problem of "not quite right'. I found varients that had yellow not orange bullseyes, green not blue, but the other field markings on the ventral or dorsal were too far even for fading. So far I have not been able to find a reliable variant list for Mexico. Will keep this one in the back of my mind as I search for other IDs of Mexican mysteries. Admitting defeat for now, I am content with Papilio sp. :)

Papilio polyxenes asterius. Might be an aberation and/or quite an older one with washed out colors and markings. Considering an aberation it would be tricky to separate a female from a male.
http://butterfliesofamerica.com/imagehtm...

My thanks to Adarsha, theham, and Diane for a great discussion. Maybe we will run across the answer in the future. :)

This was very interesting and learnt a lot about snowtails...Perhaps may be a hybrid or like in humans, this one born with different markings!
Thank u Gator, Diane n theham for such nice discussioN...
You r right Gartor..Range made me divierted more towards Papilio polyxenes ....But i still believe we need more good view of open wing structure!

I agree gatorfellows

Wow looks like some kind of Swallowtail?

Storm can push, but if you zoom out on the location map, it is a long way to ride. I found a good source that talks about variants of Papilio polyxenes in Mexico. Body markings (thanks to theham) and the yellow head dots have me focused first on finding variant of Papilio polyxenes is possible. The fun of a research chase.

Just wondering if there could have been a storm to push this butterfly out of normal range (May 29, 2012). Sometimes that happens. Or possibility of this being a hybrid. Questions questions. You're right, what fun !

I agree with DianePlatcoBrooks that the best course at this time may be Papilio sp. At least we all agree on that much about this butterfly. What fun :)

theham is correct about the abdomen marks - so if there is no range confirmation on old world, then black is the next best guess at this time :)

I do not have range information to support my suggestion. I am not an expert but I think the it matches closer than the Black swallowtail or the Pipevine. I don't know how old the range information is that you stated. I do know that ranges have been changing, and anything is possible. Maybe this one should just go down as Papilio sp. =)

This is the only range information I could find and it is not near to the center of Mexico where this spotting occured. Do you have different range information that supports this suggestion. There are other species of swallowtails that occur in Mexico, but I found no closer matches.
Papilio machaon bairdii, Baird's Old World Swallowtail - Range
s. California, Nevada, Utah, to s. Alberta & Saskatchewan, south to New Mexico & Arizona. Blends with ssp. oregonius at north edge of Great Basin and in valleys of northern Rockies.

Oh yeah..you r right then..This ID is correct! Luis, you can edit the details now....Thanks Diane...

I think I know the problem with the image that you just posted Adarsha. In that bottom female image the fore wing is covering most of the hind wing, so you're not seeing any of the blue. You can see it underneath the forewing. THat is not a good image to use in my opinion.

Yes, I don't understand that. The first link I posted had a topwing that was very close, considering some fading.
http://butterfliesofamerica.com/imagehtm......

There we go...
Excellent Diane..Closed wing structure is perfect in forewing, hindwing n abdomen...(Everything)..Even half yellow marks in Hindwing...(that 4th image link)...But the open wing differs na?
http://butterfliesofamerica.com/papilio_...

Underwing, 4th image down of Papilio machaon bairdii
http://www.kimandmikeontheroad.com/wmaz_...

Not an expert, but has anyone considered female Papilio machaon bairdii, Baird's Old World Swallowtail?
http://butterfliesofamerica.com/imagehtm...

Coming to abdomen, it resembles black snowtail more..we may need some more expert to clarify/verify...

Orange bulls eye is somewat visible in open...I wish one more open wing pic is needed...Lets c wat happens!
But discussion was nice!

Comparing the abdomens of the two, it does have two bands of yellow spots while the pipevine only has one! The pipevine abdomen is also bluish in color

It seems to be very faded, possibly quite near death... if its a black swallowtail then the orangish bullseye markings of the inner wing are missing, but it doesn't have anything resembling the band of yellow spots on the inner wing of a pipevine...very perplexing

Thank you for the info Gator..I still believe its Black snowtail.
You check this link for closed wing, where extrs yellow marks on the back side...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mimbrava/25...
But open wing neither resembles black nor the pipevine....(Luis pic)
Also orange-yellow difference is still a doubt!