Guardian Nature School Team Contact Blog Project Noah Facebook Project Noah Twitter

A worldwide community photographing and learning about wildlife

Join Project Noah!
nature school apple icon

Project Noah Nature School visit nature school

Geometrid Moth

Ennominae, cf. unplaced externaria.sci

Description:

4cm across the wing tips

Habitat:

there is a good cross section of the local moth population (or as many as I can handle and photograph) landing on the driveway lights of the apartments so most of these studio shots specimens were caught there

Notes:

#pale moss moth Thanks to Bayucca and dhobern for all the hard work in getting the identification (see comments attached)

1 Species ID Suggestions

bayucca
bayucca 10 years ago
Geometrid Moth
Tephrosia externaria File:Tephrosia externaria.jpg - Wikimedia Commons


Sign in to suggest organism ID

17 Comments

StephenSolomons
StephenSolomons 10 years ago

lol done!

bayucca
bayucca 10 years ago

Yes, we have recorded it for the Eternity. However, there is NO info about Scipoglyptis externaria, nada! So I suggest we keep it more superficial:
Ennominae, cf. unplaced externaria.
I guess as a Ranger I can give that OK for once ;-)...
Special cases need special deals.

StephenSolomons
StephenSolomons 10 years ago

Thanks Donald and bayucca. We have the conversation recorded here for the next person who comes looking so I think we have done well. I have changed the identification accordingly

dhobern
dhobern 10 years ago

It's hard to suggest how to handle the name. The ALA classification is based on the Australian Faunal Directory (AFD) - http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversi...

The AFD treatment for the Boarmiini (the tribe in Ennominae to which this belongs) includes many species listed under Unplaced genus. The problem is that many of these species were described under northern hemisphere genera and do not necessarily fit in current concepts for those genera. The best suggestion I can make is to go with Scipoglyptis externaria, since Scoble in 1999 placed it at least provisionally there in his book, Geometrid Moths of the World.

Of course I make no guarantee that my photographs (on which this id is based) are definitely this species. Information on this group in Australia is limited. That was the best I could assign it to.

Best wishes, Donald

StephenSolomons
StephenSolomons 10 years ago

Thank you indeed!

bayucca
bayucca 10 years ago

Thanks a lot, Donald!! I am happy that I was with my Ennominae not so far out of the row ;-)... What would you now suggest for the ID of this one?
Tephrosia externaria? Tephrosia cf. externaria? Or what else?

dhobern
dhobern 10 years ago

This is indeed clearly Geometridae: Ennominae. As noted below, the challenge is working out which one. I remember having great difficulties with the moth I saw at Burrill Lake. After checking specimens in the Australian National Insect Collection and looking at what literature I could find, I decided that Tephrosia externaria was the closest. In fact this species has been placed in various genera - Hypomecis externaria and Scioglyptis externaria. It currently appears in the ALA unplaced as to genus - http://bie.ala.org.au/species/urn:lsid:b...

In other words more work needs to be done on these moths. Cathy Young at the Tasmanian Museum and Art Gallery does work on Australian Geometridae, but I'm not sure how much she has looked at the Ennominae.

StephenSolomons
StephenSolomons 10 years ago

If you get trees instead of moths try googling the name plus the word "moth" in this case there was still only a Google stub. I left a message for dhobern.

StephenSolomons
StephenSolomons 10 years ago

Not a bad idea. Thanks

bayucca
bayucca 10 years ago

Maybe you can try to get in contact with dhobern, he is quite an expert. If you try to google Tephrosia you only got trees and no moths ;-)...
And the missing 30% is exactly the problem with all these Geometridae!

StephenSolomons
StephenSolomons 10 years ago

Thank you bayucca. The wiki link has some of the black markings on the forewings missing and I would only be about 70% confident they are the same species although the genus is the same

bayucca
bayucca 10 years ago

I give you a little bit more of my time...
Geometridae, Ennominae, Tephrosia externaria. Please, verify! I only have found one specimen from Canberra. The allover phenotype looks quite fine for Tephrosia externaria, some of the markings are more faint or stronger in yours, but in the ones from dhobern as well.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:T...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dhobern/291...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25401497@N0...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25401497@N0...
Now you maybe can hunt for another one ;-)...

StephenSolomons
StephenSolomons 10 years ago

I appreciate the time you have managed to give so far. It has been very helpful bayucca. Thanks. :-) I will keep hunting

bayucca
bayucca 10 years ago

Oh, I am sure you will have found that one like me, but now the troubles starts... Which Ennominae?? That's the hard part of the game and be careful! There are some Larentiinae which looks very similar. I think the genus should be possible to get and maybe even the species. I am sorry, I am too busy to help out at the moment. I only have time for dummy IDs ;-)...

StephenSolomons
StephenSolomons 10 years ago

I never would have found that one, there are ten thousand species. Thanks

bayucca
bayucca 10 years ago

Geometridae, Ennominae, I would say.

StephenSolomons
Spotted by
StephenSolomons

New South Wales, Australia

Spotted on Oct 2, 2013
Submitted on Oct 2, 2013

Related Spottings

Geometridea, Ennominae Geometridae, Ennominae Geometridae, Ennominae, Geometridae, Ennominae

Nearby Spottings

Graceful Bush Pea Native Sarsaparilla Triangle Moth Spotting
Noah Guardians
Noah Sponsors
join Project Noah Team

Join the Project Noah Team