Guardian Nature School Team Contact Blog Project Noah Facebook Project Noah Twitter

A global community of nature enthusiasts
photographing and learning about wildlife

Join Project Noah!
nature school apple icon

Project Noah Nature School visit nature school

Erato Heliconian

Heliconius erato

Notes:

At butterfly exhibit at Chicago Botanical Garden.

1 Species ID Suggestions

bayucca
bayucca 8 years ago
Heliconius Butterfly
Heliconius sp.


Sign in to suggest organism ID

14 Comments

patty
patty 8 years ago

Delightful butterfly, picture and spotting. I imagine the exhibition must have been joyful. Greetings =)

bayucca
bayucca 8 years ago

;-)... I need growing with my 1.69 (I cheated a little bit, in my passport there is 1.73...)! I know that we might confuse the spotter with our discussion, but it is never too late to learn and these discussion are always very exciting.
See my shame ID (you have to read the comments):
http://www.projectnoah.org/spottings/857...
And I am always happy it is written suggestion not "Written in stone ID"...

Gatorfellows, I completely second that, there is no shame in trying one bit. After all the entire purpose of this amazing site is to document, educate and learn all about the organisms around us and no one can learn without making mistakes, that's exactly how you grow intellectually !

gatorfellows
gatorfellows 8 years ago

Spotter had used the suggestion. With other photos coming and going there seemed to be more confusion. I am busy preparing a fall class presentatio and did not have time to watch this conversation properly, so was just bowing out to lessen confusion. Id by photo is really hard for me and I have missed the obvious more than once. No shame for those of us who try. :)

bayucca
bayucca 8 years ago

@gatorfellow: There would be no need to withdraw a suggestion, only if it stays a longer time and the spotter would not add any scientific name on it. Sometimes it may be very interesting to see how an ID is "developped" among commenting people. Personally I "never" cancel my suggestions, however, one was completely wrong and ehm... a little bit shaming ;-)...
Anyway, thanks for the interesting discussion!

gatorfellows
gatorfellows 8 years ago

I have withdrawn my suggestion; since as you said it is not the scientific way. I hope there is a photo that gives you enough of the underwing view for you to decide.

bayucca
bayucca 8 years ago

@gatorfellows: I agree, Erato is often found in butterfly houses and it might be a pragmatic way to ID, but as you ated already it is not scientific to do it this way. OK, I am a little bit picky with this things and also with subspecies. To my experience the labels and websites in/of butterfly houses are rarely updated and the sources where the butterfly houses (once) got their pupae (or eggs) are also not always very reliable. They just took the name which is written on the label in the package or they just label it as usual: Once Erato, always Erato. If you ask people they are mostly students around, which do not always know the exact species. And Melpomene is also abundant in such butterfly houses and looks from the top identical to Erato. You definitely need a ventral view to get down to the right species. In my opinion we on Project Noah should really focus on the correct species if we know it or we just put the genus (or family) if you have not more information available. I am always "fighting" against wrong IDs on the web, since all these wrong IDs appears all the time if you do a search on the web. And other people just take over the name, not considering there might be a wrong name or another similar species. There was once 2 pictures mixed up in a little booklet which was sold thousends of times in Europe (Heliconius hecale and Heliconius ismenius, which do not even look similar). Result: Tons of wrong IDs!
Looking at this second shot I am still not 100% sure about Erato or Melpomene!
@David: Do you have any other shot of this one?? If not, take another trip to this wonderful butterfly house or take Heliconius sp. as ID.

DavidMroczkowski
DavidMroczkowski 8 years ago

Thanks, martinl. (oops)

MartinL
MartinL 8 years ago

David. You have two different butterflies here. The first one has clubbed antennae, red on the body, scalloped wing edges, red mark on hind wing, white band on forewing. This differs from pics 2 and 3 which are both Heliconius sp. The first one is Parides sp. , not sure which, possibly http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?searc...

DavidMroczkowski
DavidMroczkowski 8 years ago

Yes, gatorfellows. Thanks. I asked for a list, and they said they had more than just the dozen or so on it. As many as 50. I did find more images, which I believe are the same species, Bayucca.

gatorfellows
gatorfellows 8 years ago

Hi; I decided on Heliconius erato after looking at the list on the Chicago Botanical Garden; Butterflies and Blooms Exhibit that is running June to Sept. The website has a featuring these butterflies list. http://www.chicagobotanic.org/butterflie...
Not a scientific observation; but a fair guess since it was the one on their list. Looking at the list might be easier than field guides for IDs on the photos that were taken. It looks like it was a very nice exhibit.

DavidMroczkowski
DavidMroczkowski 8 years ago

Bayucca, I will look and see. I took as many pictures as possible, but there were so many flying about...I'll have to go through them. It's likely that I did.

bayucca
bayucca 8 years ago

It is either Heliconius erato, Small or Red Postman OR Heliconius melpomene, Postman. You can't separate them from this view. Do you have a view from the side, even it is not a good one?

DavidMroczkowski
DavidMroczkowski 8 years ago

Many thanks, gatorfellows!

DavidMroczkowski
Spotted by
DavidMroczkowski

Illinois, USA

Spotted on Aug 12, 2012
Submitted on Aug 12, 2012

Spotted for Mission

Noah Guardians
Noah Sponsors

Join the Project Noah Team Join Project Noah Team